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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 17, 2013 8:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

really, one of the more fascinating articles i have read in a long while ... sorry for the non-JG post, but i am posting this for the scientific minds on this forum for their thoughts and observations

http://siriusdisclosure.com/evidence/atacama-humanoid/

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 17, 2013 8:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Well, they've found the Hobbit. This is clearly Gollum.

Or, alternate theory: It's missing ribs. That makes it Adam. Did it live with the dinosaurs?

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Poster: fenario80 Date: May 18, 2013 6:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Thank you.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 17, 2013 11:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

It's human; it's got "our" DNA...not an ET if that was the thought...we can cause skeletons to look v bizarre, prior to and after death, I suppose?

I've seen stranger looking craniums on kids at DEAD shows. Er, wait, that was after I'd taken, hmm....lets see.

Seriously, odd little critter, and I do worry about all the details in the presentations (no "real" anthropologists nor evolutionary types; we can DNA analysis in a few days...etc., etc.).

Plus, haven't we gone over "it's a wise dog that scratches its own fleas"?

Dam...poor writing. Poor reporting.

But yeah, it's not getting ANY play time on the human origins or evo/devo circuits. Purely fringe stuff.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 17, 2013 11:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

purely fringe stuff is right, as i was surprised i had not heard anything on this prior to today ... as for the author of the article i linked to, i had actually heard him several years back on the radio program coast-to-coast, on some UFO stuff (freaky things can be heard on the radio after midnight), but either way, still pretty interesting ... i am curious about the full DNA analysis that apparently is forthcoming in about a year's time (yes, i know you stated a few days time for DNA analysis, but perhaps ancient DNA requires some other process/approach that requires a different timeframe??

regardless, thanks for giving your thoughts

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: May 17, 2013 12:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

they need to send it to the set of one of the vast myriad of CSI TV shows, they'll have that DNA analyzed in less than 15 minutes!

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: May 17, 2013 1:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

I'd put a whole lot more behind the story if they had performed a Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) DNA analysis instead of talking about it in glittering generalities.

Anyone know how long a full PCR analysis takes?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 17, 2013 4:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

What they are doing is way better than PCR. They are doing a form of next generation sequencing to identify mutations in any gene in the genome. I can't figure out from the article (AAAS link not the one Arb originally linked which was silly in its description) if they are just sequencing the coding part of the genome (typically called exome sequencing) or are sequencing the entire genome (whole genome sequencing or WGS). my guess is its the former as it represents about 1% of the total DNA. It takes about 4-6 weeks to sequence a genome now, but thats the easy part. The bioinformatics to map the sequences against a reference sequence and to scan for mutations is where it gets a little trickier. I think WGS takes up about 1 TB/genome.

The reason i suspect they are doing exome sequencing is to look for single base (point) mutations in genes, but to be sure they don't pick up a false positive the sequencing is done in a massively paralleled fashion so that you cover each gene many times. Remember you have two copies of each gene and the mutation might only be in one. Sounds like they have mapped and analyzed about 15% of the genome so far and specifically went after genes that would show the thing was human (mitochondrial genes) and that are known to be mutated in dwarfism, where they have come up empty. Now they have to look carefully at the rest of the genome. Will it take a year? Not sure but, if they find a mutation they will need to confirm with a conventional sequencing approach. So it might be a year before we hear the results.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 17, 2013 4:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Ah, well, you clearly have a better understanding than I; I only read the first link, and it was NOT encouraging, on any number of fronts, so I bailed...it seems like the folks, or one at least, want to wrap it in an air of "extra special, mysterious" research...rather than straight up "what kind of genetic oddball is it?", which frankly, I wouldn't think is the logical first pass at explaining the existance of a strange looking little person, eh? IE, why not "environment" first?

But, again, it was the lack of upfront, "here we have a HUMAN of singular development, and we are looking for..." and more of "ET?"...was it just me skimming it?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 17, 2013 7:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

No the guy who wrote the first article was definitely sensationalizing it and holding out hope that they found that space alien from the Flintstones cartoons. You remember the little dude who hung out with Fred and Barney but no one else could see? I think his name was Kazoo or something like that. The only reason i thought it wasn't a farce was i recognized Garry Nolan's name and knew he is at Stanford. We use a cell line that his lab created that makes it easy to transfer genes into other cells.

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Poster: high flow Date: May 17, 2013 2:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

OJ Simpson?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbeep* Date: May 18, 2013 7:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Long enough to discover.....what I feared more than anything.

Image4.jpg

This post was modified by beep* on 2013-05-18 14:47:18

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Poster: jgIynn1.2 Date: May 21, 2013 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Exactly what popped into my head when I saw the x-ray. Same posture and everything.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 17, 2013 11:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... original model for 68 artwork discovered!!!

If it were in a lab w well funded sorts, like elb, where we are curing cancer and doing other great things, they can fast track stuff and do it quick...you are right that "old" or "dead" (ie, preserved) DNA is troublesome, but this wouldn't be too bad, given the timeline.

Of course, this is ALL highly speculative on my part--I really just scanned it, but like you and elb, have some reservations about the presentation, etc.

Cool find though--he's a NATURAL for being a 68 lover, right?

I mean, really! He could've been a MODEL for the Aoxomoxoa cover, right?

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: May 17, 2013 2:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Really interesting, thanks!!

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: May 17, 2013 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

For accuracy's sake, I'm glad you said "non-JG" since "non-Dead" doesn't seem applicable here.

Seems sooo much like a hoax, but apparently isn't. I'm really hooked now. WTF?

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Poster: craven714 Date: May 17, 2013 10:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

I thiunk I found the little bastards father:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKZVaaiWN2U

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Poster: fenario80 Date: May 17, 2013 9:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2013/05/bizarre-6-inch-skeleton-shown-to.html

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Poster: Jack o' Roses Date: May 17, 2013 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Since it is reported twice on a AAAS site (7 days apart) it is very believable to me as a scientist.

(http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2013/05/top-stories-debunking-aliens-old.html?ref=hp)

But time will tell

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Poster: snoori Date: May 17, 2013 10:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

'It's life, Jim ..... but not as we know it.'

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: May 17, 2013 1:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Here's a link to the full docu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJpq5CFo53o

I'll admit, there was a time in my life where I would have outright dismissed this as some kind of crystal loving, hippie nonsense, but as I've gotten older I've seen things that defy logical explanation by "normally" constrained and defined sciences. Not saying this is anything more than a well concocted hoax, but I can't just toss it in the "Yeah, whatever" bin either. I'm sure there's a very logical explanation for the Atacama humanoid. I'm not so sure we have agreed on what "logical" is.

It got a lot of press at the Resonance Project with Nassim Haramein.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxfBg6YO9mU

Again, I can't fully sign on board with the Unified Field Theory, but it does make for some fascinating review.

Couple of links you may enjoy:

http://markets.cbsnews.com/cbsnews/news/read?GUID=24131644

http://www.sciencedomain.org/abstract.php?iid=224&;id=4&aid=1298#.UYpH5oLnyBN

http://resonance.is/

Have some fun running down this rabbit hole.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 17, 2013 9:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

My first thought would have been its a hoax but the scientist who is doing the genome analysis is the real deal and more importantly the story was featured in the Huffington Post.

I do find it very difficult to believe that it lived 6-8 years at that size but find it even harder to believe that it is an ET if the preliminary sequencing resulted in no mutations in the genes they have analyzed when mapped to the human genome. I wonder if somehow it lived in utero for an unusually long time and began to develop without growing. Not sure if this is even possible or how it could happen but it seems as plausible as anything else.

Edit: I like the rapid aging in the womb idea even better.

We need the PM to weigh in.

This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2013-05-17 16:34:54

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 17, 2013 10:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

your 'rapid aging in the womb' speculation is interesting, and i'd be curious if such a process is possible ... but you know, i so much want it to be evidence of ET life...

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 17, 2013 10:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

not my speculation, Nolan makes that comment in the AAAS story. Mine was the same basis, all the development happened in the womb, but i thought it was a defect in the gestation process. I like Nolan's better and he is a much better scientist than i.

This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2013-05-17 17:27:23

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 17, 2013 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

"and he is a much better scientist than i"

that may or may not be true, but you at least can hold forth for hours on the evolution of Dark Star from primal to late era GD; what does Nolan have in that category?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 17, 2013 10:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Perhaps, although it does not take hours to come to the conclusion that '68 was better.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 17, 2013 10:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

true, it took me less than five minutes :)

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Poster: utopian Date: May 18, 2013 8:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Dr Steven Greer is one of the most genuine ufo researchers I have heard. The disclosure project, a beacon call for worldwide ufo disclosure, includes testimony from several defense department heads of foreign countries (Belgium, France, Canada) our own military insiders, and many other witness'. There are many videos on YouTube, and interviews on coast to coast am with Dr Stephen Greer.

His organization, Cseti, leads small teams into the wilderness and trains them through meditative techniques and hand held signaling devices to make contact with ufo craft. In Joshua tree national park he recounts a story of a craft that materializes and dematerializes while hovering just over the heads of a small group.

Generally he would say, not all ufos are from beyond this planet, We have cataloged over 65 types of beings visiting us, there are several agendas within these several groups, there was a large increase in activity after earth tested nuclear weapons, in 1954 Eisenhower met with a race of beings at Edwards Air Force base, we have many types of downed off earth vehicles, there is a Russian humanoid found in 1996 with video, that greatly resembles the attacama humanoid.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 18, 2013 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Well, I suppose that cinches it; elb, are you SURE about your friend at SnodFart? This is exactly what it smelled like....

BTW, having camped all OVER the Mohave Desert since the 60s, I can assure you that NO crafts EVER materialize...a few chunks of crap have ALMOST killed me, but they have ALWAYS been labeled: "return to NASA" (I kid you not).

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 19, 2013 3:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Again, if you read the AAAS version you will see that this Greer fellow is letting his own bias towards it being an ET cloud his vision of what the real scientists are saying about it. If you read this you will see how systematic the approach has been and continues to be. As i re-read this, it appears the initial analysis of the sequencing is completed and they found nothing. I suspect this means they did the exome sequencing and there are no mutations and now they will do more WGS to look for structural changes in in the genome (translocations) or they feel they need better than 17-fold coverage to see mutations. They are also looking at other possibilities as suggested in the last paragraph, but our UFO chaser would never have mentioned these as they are more arguments against what he wants Ata to be.

From AAAS:

Last fall, immunologist Garry Nolan, director of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute's Proteomics Center for Systems Immunology at Stanford in California, heard about Ata from a friend and contacted the filmmakers, offering to give them a scientific readout on the specimen. They asked him to give it a shot.

Among the apparent abnormalities, Ata sports 10 ribs instead of the usual 12 and a severely misshapen skull. "I asked our neonatal care unit how you would go about analyzing it. Had they seen this kind of syndrome before?" Nolan says. He was directed to pediatric radiologist Ralph Lachman, co-director of the International Skeletal Dysplasia Registry at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, California. "He literally wrote the book on pediatric bone disorders," Nolan says. Lachman was blown away, Nolan recalls: "He said, 'Wow, this is like nothing I've ever seen before.' "

To study the specimen, Nolan sought clues in Ata's genome. He initially presumed the specimen was tens or hundreds of thousands of years old—the Atacama Desert may be the driest spot on the planet, so Ata could have been preserved for eons. He consulted experts who had extracted DNA from bones of the Denisovans, an Asian relative of European Stone Age Neandertals. It turned out that their protocols weren't necessary. "The DNA was modern, abundant, and high quality," he says, indicating that the specimen is probably a few decades old.


To the chagrin of UFO hunters, Ata is decidedly of this world. After mapping more than 500 million reads to a reference human genome, equating to 17.7-fold coverage of the genome, Nolan concluded that Ata "is human, there's no doubt about it." Moreover, the specimen's B2 haplotype—a category of mitochondrial DNA—reveals that its mother was from the west coast of South America: Chile, that is.

Meanwhile, after examining x-rays, Lachman concluded that Aka's skeletal development, based on the density of the epiphyseal plates of the knees (growth plates at the end of long bones found only in children), surprisingly appears to be equivalent to that of a 6- to 8-year-old child. If that holds up, there are two possibilities, Nolan says. One, a long shot, is that Ata had a severe form of dwarfism, was actually born as a tiny human, and lived until that calendar age. To test that hypothesis, he will try to extract hemoglobin from the specimen's bone marrow and compare the relative amounts of fetal versus adult hemoglobin proteins. The second possibility is that Ata, the size of a 22-week-old fetus, suffered from a severe form of a rare rapid aging disease, progeria, and died in the womb or after premature birth.

Nolan hasn't yet turned up hits for genes known to be associated with progeria or dwarfism. He's stepping up the search for mutations through additional sequencing and casting a wider net. Another possibility is a teratogen: a birth defect-inducing toxicant along the lines of thalidomide. Nolan plans to analyze tissue using mass spectrometry to look for toxicants or metabolites. But reports of a handful of other Tom Thumb-sized skeletons from Russia and elsewhere have Nolan leaning toward a genetic explanation.

At least one expert has a more prosaic take—but agrees that the specimen is human. "This looks to me like a badly desiccated and mummified human fetus or premature stillbirth," says William Jungers, a paleoanthropologist and anatomist at Stony Brook University Medical Center in New York. He notes that "barely ossified and immature elements" of the hands and feet, and the wide open metopic suture, where the two frontal bones of the skull come together down the middle of the forehead. "Genetic anomalies are not evident, probably because there aren't any," he says. Nolan responds that the rib number and epiphyseal plate densities remain a riddle; while he is open to the fetus hypothesis, he thinks that the jury is still out.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 19, 2013 6:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Fascinating! ... If Not A Hoax [non-JG]

Ah, thanks--must have been why I felt confident in concluding there was "nothing to it", but was put off by the language in what I came to first...

I do like the Russian Tom Thumbs, though; cool!

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